DRAFT

CITY OF ROCKY RIVER

NOVEMBER 8, 2004

Regular meeting of Council was called to order by Mrs. Bobst, President of Council, at 8:00 p.m.

Council Members Present: Mr. Gollinger, Mr. Potterfield, Mr. Frost, Mr. Hurtuk,

Mrs. Bartolozzi, Mr. Hagan, Mrs. Bobst

Administration: Mayor Knoble, Mr. Linden, Mr. Thomas, Mr. Lesiecki, Chief Wagner

Law Director: Mr. Matty

Press: Mr. Kelley, Mrs. McKenzie

The meeting was opened with the Pledge of Allegiance.

MOTION:

Moved by Mrs. Bobst, seconded by Mr. Hurtuk, that the reading of the minutes of the Legislative Meeting of October 25 be waived and that the minutes be accepted as submitted.

Vote: Gollinger - aye Potterfield - aye Frost - aye

Hurtuk - aye Bartolozzi - aye Hagan - aye

Bobst - aye

7 ayes 0 nays PASSED

Moved by Mrs. Bobst, seconded by Mr. Hurtuk, that the reading of the minutes of the meeting of the Committee-of-the-Whole of November 1 be waived and that the minutes be accepted as submitted.

Vote: Gollinger - aye Potterfield - aye Frost - aye

Hurtuk - aye Bartolozzi - aye Hagan - abstain

Bobst - aye

6 ayes 1 abstention 0 nays PASSED

Moved by Mr. Gollinger, seconded by Mr. Potterfield, that the reading of the minutes of the meeting of the Environmental Committee of October 25 be waived and that the minutes be accepted as submitted.

Vote: Gollinger - aye Bartolozzi - aye Hagan - aye Potterfield - aye

4 ayes 0 nays PASSED

MAYOR'S REPORT:

The Mayor was pleased to report that Election Day went very smoothly in our City. There were one or two minor problems, but nothing of significance which altered or impeded the voting process.

Leaf collection is progressing. Some residents may be impatient, but some 450 tons were transported to the dump. The Mayor noted that wet leaves are heavy, and care must be taken with the equipment. Serious issues remain in the Bates/Orchard Park area because the lack of tree lawns makes it more difficult to get leaves to the curb and the uneven surfaces make it difficult to collect the leaves without collecting stones and other rubble. The Mayor asked the residents to be patient.

Thursday is Veterans' Day and City Hall will be closed. Leaf pickup crews will operate, but garbage collection will be delayed by one day.

The Beautification Committee will meet tomorrow at 7:00 p.m. at the Civic Center.

The Police Auction will be held on Saturday at 9:00 a.m. in the Police garage. Chief Wagner reported that there are many bicycles and some computer parts along with miscellaneous items.

The Tree Lighting Ceremony will be held on Saturday after Thanksgiving at 5:30 p.m.

LAW DIRECTOR'S REPORT:

As an example of why he spends so much time trying to resolve issues, Mr. Matty noted that the Vintilla case, which began as a moral claim before Council, has been active until last month when the U.S. Supreme Court denied a petition to hear the case.

A situation for discussion of property maintenance and penalties has been raised in Ordinance No. 154-04 which increases penalties for noncompliance of Section 1371. As a follow-up, Mr. Matty suggests conversation about Section 1370.99 which deals with maintenance penalties for other than rental properties. According to the Building Department, about 90% of citations issued are not on rental certificates but on property maintenance. He commented that stronger support from Council may be warranted and urged Council members to look at two sites: the SE corner of Smith Ct. and Ingersoll which has been regraded, seeded and fenced and is a prime example of what we want in the City. The other property, at Lake and Linda, is being worked on by the Building Commissioner who is trying to achieve compliance. The Code penalty here is a minor misdemeanor and a 4^th degree misdemeanor on the second offense. Mr. Matty indicated that he would appreciate follow-up discussion.

The Master Plan will be further discussed at the next meeting of the Planning Commission. There will be an attempt to coordinate their review with City Council to expedite the process. If recommendations are received by the Chair, they may be transmitted to Council before the entire process is completed. Public comment will also be taken, study area by study area.

Discussion: Mrs. Bobst acknowledged audience members from Beachcliff Market Square and asked the Law Director for an update on the status of the negotiations with Madison Marquette. She noted that last week, Council had, by motion, authorized the Law Director to negotiate terms for the long-term lease of a parking garage.

Mr. Matty responded that a final draft is on its way to him and to Mr. Koran, possibly as early as this week. When it is received, it will be reviewed, and hopefully the two sides will be able to reach a preliminary agreement. At that time, an ordinance will be drafted for Council. A sample lease would be for public parking for the entire downtown Rocky River area. The ordinance may be available for the next meeting of the Committee-of-the-Whole, but more probably the following week.

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

Planning, Zoning and Economic Development Committee: Mr. Potterfield reported that his committee had met this evening with Mr. Matthew Knecht of HzW Environmental Consultants. Mr. Knecht was very knowledgeable and gave the committee insights on requirements for the Lake Road Development Site that is being considered for sale by the City. The topic will be discussed further.

COMMUNICATIONS AND ANNOUNCEMENTS: NONE

Mrs. Bobst had no requests for changes to the Consent Agenda.

AUDIENCE PARTICIPATION: NONE

RESOLUTION NO. 91-04 BY BRIAN HAGAN

A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE UPDATED PUBLIC, EDUCATIONAL AND GOVERNMENT ACCESS GUIDELINES AND HANDBOOKS AND DECLARING AN EMERGENCY

This resolution continues on hold pending changes in the exhibits.

ORDINANCE NO. 115-04 BY EARL W. POTTERFIELD

AN ORDINANCE TO DIVIDE CURRENT PERMANENT PARCEL NO. 302-04-004, LOCATED SOUTH OF LAKE ROAD AND OWNED BY THE CITY OF ROCKY RIVER, INTO PARCEL "A" AND PARCEL "B", AS FURTHER DESCRIBED IN EXHIBIT "A"

This ordinance and Ordinance No. 116-04 were the subject of the discussion at the committee meeting this evening.

ORDINANCE NO. 116-04 BY EARL W. POTTERFIELD

AN ORDINANCE TO CHANGE THE DISTRICT CLASSIFICATION OF CERTAIN REAL PROPERTY IN THE CITY OF ROCKY RIVER KNOWN AS PARCEL "B", PART OF AUDITOR'S PERMANENT PARCEL NO. 302-04-004, FROM ITS PRESENT CLASSIFICATION OF PUBLIC FACILITY (PF) TO OFFICE BUILDING - 2 (OB-2), AS FURTHER DESCRIBED IN EXHIBIT "A"

See discussion for Ordinance No. 115-04.

RESOLUTION NO. 133-04 BY EARL W. POTTERFIELD

A RESOLUTION ADOPTING A COMPREHENSIVE GENERAL PLAN KNOWN AS THE ROCKY RIVER MASTER PLAN

This resolution has been referred to the Planning Commission. Further discussion will be held following receipt of their comments.

ORDINANCE NO. 143-04 BY FRANK B. GOLLINGER

AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND ROCKY RIVER CODIFIED ORDINANCE 1371.02(b)(4) BY DECREASING THE PERIOD OF THE RENTAL LICENSE/CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY FROM TWENTY-FOUR (24) MONTHS TO TWELVE (12) MONTHS AND DECLARING AN EMERGENCY

1^ST READING

This ordinance is concerned with rental properties and reduces the period of the rental license/ certificate of occupancy from 24 to 12 months to increase inspection frequency. Mr. Gollinger noted that he plans to read this ordinance three times to allow for input from residents and property owners.

ORDINANCE NO. 144-04 BY FRANK B. GOLLINGER

AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND ROCKY RIVER CODIFIED ORDINANCE 1371.03 BY DECREASING THE PERIOD OF THE RENTAL LICENSE/CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY FROM TWENTY-FOUR (24) MONTHS TO TWELVE (12) MONTHS AND DECLARING AN EMERGENCY

1^ST READING

See discussion for Ordinance No. 143-04. This ordinance will also be read three times.

ORDINANCE NO. 145-04 BY FRANK B. GOLLINGER

AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND ROCKY RIVER CODIFIED ORDINANCE 1371.05 BY DECREASING THE PERIOD OF THE RENTAL LICENSE/CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY FROM TWENTY-FOUR (24) MONTHS TO TWELVE (12) MONTHS AND ALSO INCREASING THE RENTAL LICENSE/CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY RELATED FEES AND DECLARING AN EMERGENCY

1^ST READING

See discussion for Ordinance No. 143-04. This is the third of three rental property ordinances. This ordinance also calls for the doubling of fees to assist in the administration of annual inspections. This also will have three readings to allow for an administrative review process.

ORDINANCE NO. 148-04 BY FRANK B. GOLLINGER

AN EMERGENCY ORDINANCE TO AUTHORIZE THE MAYOR TO RENEW THE HEALTH CONTRACT FOR THE YEAR 2005 WITH THE GENERAL HEALTH DISTRICT OF CUYAHOGA COUNTY, OHIO FOR SERVICES TO THE CITY OF ROCKY RIVER, IN THE AMOUNT OF $3.35 PER CAPITA, NOT TO EXCEED SIXTY-NINE THOUSAND FOUR HUNDRED SIXTY-TWO DOLLARS ($69,462.00)

1^ST READING

Moved by Mr. Gollinger, seconded by Mr. Potterfield, that the rule requiring that Ordinance No. 148-04 be read on three separate days be suspended, and that Ordinance No. 148-04 be placed upon its passage:

Discussion: This ordinance was originally under the sponsorship of Councilman Hagan. Mrs. Bobst pointed out its many environmental functions and moved it to the Environmental Committee. Mr. Gollinger noted that this is an annual ordinance which outlines services contracted by the Administration with the Cuyahoga County Board of Health. Mr. Gollinger would like to see these services continue.

Vote: Gollinger - aye Potterfield - aye Frost - aye

Hurtuk - aye Bartolozzi - aye Hagan - aye

Bobst - aye

7 ayes 0 nays PASSED

Moved by Mr. Gollinger, seconded by Mr. Potterfield, that Ordinance No.148-04 be passed as read:

Discussion: Mr. Gollinger commented that the services provided have been excellent and could not be provided by us at this cost. The rate remains reasonable despite a minimal increase of $.25 per capita and Mr. Gollinger urged passage.

Vote: Gollinger - aye Potterfield - aye Frost - aye

Hurtuk - aye Bartolozzi - aye Hagan - aye

Bobst - aye

7 ayes 0 nays PASSED

ORDINANCE NO. 149-04 BY BRIAN F. HAGAN

AN EMERGENCY ORDINANCE AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO ENTER INTO AN AGREEMENT WITH MACKAY ENGINEERING & SURVEYING COMPANY FOR PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERING SERVICES RELATIVE TO THE YACHT CLUB DRIVE/RIVERDALE DRIVE FEASIBILITY STUDY IN AN AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED $19,930.00

1^ST READING

Mr. Hagan thanked Council members for the discussion held in his absence, and noted that the discussion will continue at next week's meeting of the Contracts Committee at 7:00 p.m. in the Committee Room. He also thanked Mr. Potterfield for the 1988 Yacht Club Basin Study. Mayor Knoble indicated that Council members will receive a further report in packets this Friday. He noted that there was erroneous information in the 1988 study, e.g. South Island is a dedicated street, contrary to what is stated.

ORDINANCE NO. 150-04 BY BRIAN F. HAGAN

AN ORDINANCE AUTHORIZING THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC SAFETY-SERVICE TO PURCHASE MEALS FOR THE ROCKY RIVER JAIL FACILITY AT A COST OF $20.25 PER DAY PER PRISONER ($6.75 PER MEAL) FROM MICHAEL'S FAMILY RESTAURANT, ROCKY RIVER, OHIO

1^ST READING

Moved by Mr. Hagan, seconded by Mr. Hurtuk, that the rule requiring that Ordinance No. 150-04 be read on three separate days be suspended, and that Ordinance No. 150-04 be placed upon its passage:

Discussion: Mr. Hagan indicated that this is an annual contract and that there is no reason to delay passage.

Vote: Gollinger - aye Potterfield - aye Frost - aye

Hurtuk - aye Bartolozzi - aye Hagan - aye

Bobst - aye

7 ayes 0 nays PASSED

Moved by Mr. Hagan, seconded by Mr. Hurtuk, that Ordinance No.150-04 be passed as read:

Discussion: Mr. Linden mentioned that they have never had a problem with this provider and that meals are delivered in a timely manner. He said that they have done a fine job. The price remains the same as last year.

Vote: Gollinger - aye Potterfield - aye Frost - aye

Hurtuk - aye Bartolozzi - aye Hagan - aye

Bobst - aye

7 ayes 0 nays PASSED

ORDINANCE NO. 151-04 BY BRIAN F. HAGAN

AN EMERGENCY ORDINANCE AUTHORIZING THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC SAFETY-SERVICE TO REIMBURSE MANDATORY OHIO ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY DISPOSAL FEES ENCUMBERED BY B.F.I. OF OHIO IN CONNECTION WITH SERVICES RENDERED IN THE REMOVAL OF GRIT AND SCREENINGS FOR THE ROCKY RIVER WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT

1^ST READING

Moved by Mr. Hagan, seconded by Mrs. Bartolozzi and Mr. Gollinger, that the rule requiring that Ordinance No. 151-04 be read on three separate days be suspended, and that Ordinance No. 151-04 be placed upon its passage:

Discussion: This was discussed at the last meeting of the Committee-of-the-Whole, and Mr. Hagan asserted that had he been present, he would have placed it on the Consent Agenda as there is no reason to delay passage.

Vote: Gollinger - aye Potterfield - aye Frost - aye

Hurtuk - aye Bartolozzi - aye Hagan - aye

Bobst - aye

7 ayes 0 nays PASSED

Moved by Mr. Hagan, seconded by Mr. Gollinger, that Ordinance No.151-04 be passed as read:

Discussion: Mr. Hagan explained that this $.25/ton fee has been imposed on BFI, and they are asking the City for help. The charge, an unfunded EPA mandate, will be levied through the life of the contract, but will cost less than an additional $100 per year.

Vote: Gollinger - aye Potterfield - aye Frost - aye

Hurtuk - aye Bartolozzi - aye Hagan - aye

Bobst - aye

7 ayes 0 nays PASSED

ORDINANCE NO. 153-04 BY FRANK B. GOLLINGER

AN EMERGENCY ORDINANCE AMENDING SECTION 1371.99 OF THE CODIFIED ORDINANCES OF THE CITY OF ROCKY RIVER, ENTITLED "PENALTY; LEGAL ACTION", AND AS FURTHER DESCRIBED IN THE ATTACHED EXHIBIT "A"

1^ST READING

This ordinance is associated with the rental property ordinances discussed earlier. This raises penalties from a minor misdemeanor to a 1^st degree misdemeanor and establishes a floor on fines. Mr. Gollinger will also read this ordinance three times.

ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS UNDER CONSENT:

ORDINANCE NO. 141-04 BY MAYOR WILLIAM F. KNOBLE

AN EMERGENCY ORDINANCE CREATING THE ROCKY RIVER CITY RECORDS COMMISSION

3^RD READING

Mrs. Bobst commented that this ordinance delineates who will be responsible for the preservation of City records, coordinated with the Historical Society and the office of the Auditor of State.

ORDINANCE NO. 152-04 BY ROBERT S. FROST

AN EMERGENCY ORDINANCE AUTHORIZING THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC SAFETY SERVICE TO PURCHASE .40 CALIBER, SEMI-AUTOMATIC DUTY WEAPONS FOR THE POLICE DIVISION OF THE CITY OF ROCKY RIVER FROM VANCE'S LAW ENFORCEMENT AT A COST NOT TO EXCEED $25,832.00 (LESS TRADE-IN OF CURRENT DUTY WEAPONS TOTALING $26,750.00)

1^ST READING

Discussed last week, this ordinance authorizes the purchase of new weapons for the Police Department. Because of trade-ins, the net cost will be a credit of $918. A minor change listing weapons traded has been made in the ordinance. Mr. Linden thanked the police chief and Ptl. Rusinko for their work to save money for the City.

ORDINANCE NO. 154-04 BY EARL W. POTTERFIELD

AN EMERGENCY ORDINANCE AMENDING CHAPTER 1309 OF THE CODIFIED ORDINANCES OF THE CITY OF ROCKY RIVER, ENTITLED "LICENSED CONTRACTORS", AND AS FURTHER DESCRIBED IN THE ATTACHED EXHIBIT "A"

1^ST READING

This, too, was discussed last week. It was generated by the Building Department to upgrade our Code to be in compliance with the State Code.

ORDINANCE NO. 155-04 BY ROBERT S. FROST

AN EMERGENCY ORDINANCE AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO ACCEPT A PROPOSAL FROM B & C COMMUNICATIONS FOR A COMBINED MULTI-JURISDICTIONAL FIRE/EMS DISPATCH CENTER ON BEHALF OF THE WESTSHORE COUNCIL OF GOVERNMENTS CITIES OF BAY VILLAGE, FAIRVIEW PARK, NORTH OLMSTED, ROCKY RIVER AND WESTLAKE, AND AS FURTHER DESCRIBED IN THE ATTACHED EXHIBITS "A" AND "B"

1^ST READING

Also discussed at the Committee-of-the-Whole, this ordinance will accept the proposal for equipment for the fire/EMS central dispatch center on behalf of the Westshore COG. Mr. Frost added that this project should move forward.

Moved by Mrs. Bobst, seconded by Mr. Gollinger, that the rule requiring that Ordinance Nos. 141-04, 152-04, 154-04 and 155-04 be read on three separate days be suspended, and that the stated ordinances be placed upon its passage:

Vote: Gollinger - aye Potterfield - aye Frost - aye

Hurtuk - aye Bartolozzi - aye Hagan - aye

Bobst - aye

7 ayes 0 nays PASSED

Moved by Mrs. Bobst, seconded by Mr. Gollinger, that the stated ordinances be passed as read:

Vote: Gollinger - aye Potterfield - aye Frost - aye

Hurtuk - aye Bartolozzi - aye Hagan - aye

Bobst - aye

7 ayes 0 nays PASSED

MISCELLANEOUS BUSINESS:

Mr. Matty requested an Executive Session to discuss a matter of imminent litigation, and the Mayor also requested an Executive Session for another matter of imminent litigation.

MOTION:

Moved by Mrs. Bobst, seconded by Mr. Frost, that at the request of the Law Director and at the request of the Mayor, that an Executive Session be held immediately following the meeting under Article X, Section 6, Subsection 3, a conference with an attorney for the public body concerning two disputes involving the public body that are the subject of imminent court action.

Vote: Gollinger - aye Potterfield - aye Frost - aye

Hurtuk - aye Bartolozzi - aye Hagan - aye

Bobst - aye

7 ayes 0 nays PASSED

The Mayor then discussed a letter which will be mailed tomorrow to residents of the Bates/ Orchard Park area which gives a update on the status of the construction.

Mayor Knoble also noted that he had received questions about gaps in the I-90 sound barriers. These gaps are for construction purposes and there will be no gaps when the barriers are completed.

Finally, the Mayor reported that traffic studies have been done in the Beachcliff Market Square area. These are internal studies only and such studies have not been outsourced to a traffic engineer. Further data will be developed by the renovation team once plans for entrances, exits and traffic patterns have been established.

AUDIENCE PARTICIPATION: NONE

As there was no further business by members of Council, the meeting was adjourned at 8:42 p.m.

_______________________________ _______________________________

Pamela E. Bobst Misao Kurokawa

President of Council Clerk of Council

Please note: This is a draft copy of the minutes of the Legislative Meeting of November 8, 2004. These minutes may be amended or revised at the next Legislative Meeting.

DRAFT

CITY OF ROCKY RIVER

NOVEMBER 8, 2004

Planning, Zoning and Economic Development Committee

The meeting of the Planning, Zoning and Economic Development Committee was called to order by the Chairman, Mr. Potterfield, at 7:12 p.m. in the David J. Cook Council Chambers.

Planning, Zoning and Economic Development Committee Members Present:

Mr. Potterfield, Mr. Gollinger, Mr. Hurtuk (while in progress)

Absent: Mrs. Bartolozzi

Council Members present: Mrs. Bobst, Mr. Hagan

Administration: Mayor Knoble, Mr. Lesiecki, Mr. Koran

Law Director: Mr. Matty

In discussing the Lake Road Development Site, Mr. Potterfield explained that tonight's guest, Mr. Matthew D. Knecht of HzW Environmental Consultants, has corresponded with the City relative to the Lake Road project and was present to answer questions on environmental issues. Previous discussions have concerned land use, size of the property, and changes in the situation.

Mr. Potterfield referred to an article in The Plain Dealer outlining a similar situation in Garfield Heights and the problems encountered and solutions which will address the (Exhibit "A"). He then noted that the City could test or do borings, but there is a danger that what is uncovered will flag EPA regulations. He asked Mr. Knecht about the ramifications of future actions.

Mr. Knecht explained that a great deal depends upon the proposed use of the property. If the City wishes to maintain it as a green space, there are no ramifications. If a developer will be involved or if the City wishes to build on it so that the ground is penetrated, EPA regulations will be triggered. At present, there is no obligation to do anything except in the case of future outbreak of leachate which would activate other regulations. In construction, slab on grade would be the simplest. Basements are problematic because the thickness of the cap is unknown. Since materials were stockpiled on the site, it is also unknown if the harvesting of fill materials left 6" or 6' or 10' of cap material.

To consider building on the site, Mr. Knecht recommended:

1.) Confirm the dates of waste disposal. If ceased prior to 1968, obligations would be lessened. Current information is that it ceased in 1962, but it could have continued to the early 70's. Health department records can be checked to verify the dates.

2.) If it is the intent of the City to take action, the amount of fill on top should be determined. If it should be 20', construction scenarios are unlimited. If it is 6", a minimum 2' cap thickness is required.

Mayor Knoble pointed out that as yet, only a Phase I Study has been done, and no testing. There has been a historical review and discussions of what the Phase II or Phase III would involve and if either is appropriate.

• •Mr. Knecht responded that traditionally, a Phase II does not look for garbage since it is known that it is there and there is no need to quantify it. Borings can determine the horizontal and vertical extent of the cap thickness. In this case, we do not care about the vertical depth of the waste, but the vertical depth of the cap and the horizontal location of the waste is important, and a 3-D representation can be prepared. A Phase II Study can identify if waste is present, but since there has been no impact on the surface water for 40 years, he feels we can assume that the waste has done what it is going to do. We may want to quantify the location of the waste.

Mayor Knoble indicated that there are two possible scenarios under Rule 13: Section F applies to filling, grading and excavating and Section G applies to testing and sampling by drilling or excavating. He asked Mr. Knecht if both are appropriate.

• •Mr. Knecht noted that one problem is that under Section G, drilling is limited to 10' deep. There are no depth restrictions under Section F. Section F is more involved and Section G can be done more quickly.

The Mayor asked if the City decides to proceed, if along with the equipment, the EPA will be present during the entire process.

• •Mr. Knecht answered that a proposal is submitted outlining the Rule 13 plan which will be carried out. The EPA will respond within 30 days for Section F, or 7 days for Section G with approval or denial. Experience indicates that approval of the initial proposal is unlikely. Once approved, work may go forward, and the EPA may visit the site to inspect, but it is not present during the entire process. In his experience, he said that further information has not been requested at the end of the testing process. He suggested that if only half the property is being considered for sale, that only that area be included, but the Mayor said that the City is interested in the entire property.

The Mayor wondered how many days would be necessary for the drilling and Mr. Knecht stated that it would be less than seven for Section G, because there is not a lot of testing, but a visual evaluation of evidence of waste. The Mayor asked if an EPA report is prepared from that data. Mr. Knecht explained that a map is prepared which shows where waste is present and where it is not. This is a 3D representation. He also submits a certification report which compares the proposal with what was actually done.

The Mayor asked about the next step. Mr. Knecht asked what the City plans for the property. The Mayor responded that the ultimate goal is to have two office structures of two stories with a parking garage below ground.

• •Mr. Knecht immediately pointed out the difficulty with the basement. If a developer is willing to take on the property, i.e. if the property is so attractive that a developer is willing to indemnify the City, then it can be sold. He noted, however, that any materials excavated as waste cannot go back into the ground without the permission of the EPA.

The Mayor suggested the possibility of building on a slab, which Mr. Knecht said he preferred, although utilities could still be problematic. The water line must be below the frost line, and no one knows how much cover there is. If 8' should be present, then no further steps are necessary and the property can be sold. The liability would be less since no conduits are being created. For the commercial scenario, he concluded that slab on grade would be the most possible.

Mr. Gollinger asked if starting the process of investigation will place the City at risk by starting a process which may flag the EPA to require further steps.

• •Mr. Knecht did not think that would happen. The EPA already knows there is waste. Borings are backfilled with concrete to insure that they will not create new material seepout. Rule 13 will guarantee that backfill and compliance with OAC regulations.
  
  

Mayor Knoble asked about liability. He said that he was aware of methane but wondered what other type of liability exists, especially since streams run fairly close and leachate could occur.

• •Mr. Knecht pointed out that the City has liability now. If it gets into a basement situation where waste is distributed, the cost of development is raised and engineering controls must be built into the design. There are methods to prevent leaching of methane and clay dams can be placed along utility lines. There is also a potential for harm to ground water and to surface water. Ten years from now, there could be gullying on the surface and possible air emissions.

Mr. Matty recalled a storage tank incident and asked what would happen if the investigation shows that a storage tank has leaked onto the property. We do not believe it has, but we cannot be sure. If petroleum is apparent, what can be done.

• •Mr. Knecht commented that the firm would not be testing material from the site, but assessment would be visual only. The presence of a strong petroleum odor, for instance, would be noted, as would waste. He said he does not feel the two issues could be connected.
  
  

Mr. Hagan expressed interest in knowing the horizontal limits of the waste placement on the property, i.e. the extent to the east-west and north-south limits. He suggested a G study might provide this information. He noted that we know waste is present, but it is the placement that would be helpful.

• • Mr. Knecht said that he can make an educated guess by the bank up to the creek, that the waste placement is at a level close to Lake Road. This may be sufficient unless it seems from a development standpoint we want to go to the bottom.
• •Mr. Hagan asked if a slab requires 24'. Mr. Knecht commented that a developer may want to drop the existing grade down 10'. He would want to be certain of another 10' before waste. Mr. Hagan expressed concern about the cap thickness. Mr. Knecht indicated that the EPA is concerned only about existing cover. If the cover is disturbed, clay replacement may be required. If waste is uncovered in the process, clay , slurry and other materials may be needed.
  
  

Mr. Matty asked if, for purposes of selling, the City would not want to know where the waste begins and how deep it is on the entire site. This would be the best information so that we can tell buyers what they have to know.

• •Mr. Knecht indicated that if it is not necessary for a developer's building plans, it would only be involved if the top layer were to be disturbed. That is what developers need to know.

Mr. Matty felt that it would limit adverse action against the City to determine where and at what level waste is present. His interests lie in protection for the City. If someone has a development plan, they would then know what they can do within the limits. Mr. Matty further stated that he would not like to sell the property without limiting the risk because givebacks may erase profitability of the sale.

• •Mr. Knecht mentioned that with an aerial view, he could guess where the waste is located, but in the absence of such assumptions, investigative costs rise incrementally, and Mr. Knecht was unsure if the payback is sufficient for the additional costs.

Mr. Matty asked what type of costs.

• •Mr. Knecht indicated that finding more waste would take a great deal more time. This would involve a Section F application and incur more scrutiny from the agency. The costs would probably double. Mr. Matty maintained that if done correctly, it would limit exposure.
  
  

Mayor Knoble asked about the time frame for sale of the property. He mentioned hearing that there is a nine-month waiting period.

• •Mr. Knecht said that he had never before heard that and noted that landfill property transfers frequently. As far as time is concerned, for Section F, 30 days is required for an EPA response and they usually use the entire period. He estimated a total time frame of 3-5 months.

Mr. Lesiecki asked if more information is ever requested by the EPA after completion of the investigation per the approved proposal.

• •Mr. Knecht said that it has not happened in his experience.
  
  

Mr. Gollinger asked if it is possible to go down too far.

• •Mr. Knecht agreed that going down too far could cause other problems, especially if wet regions are explored.
  
  

As there were no further questions, Mr. Knecht was thanked for attending the meeting and sharing his expertise with Council.

Mr. Potterfield summarized by saying that the City has already spent $800,000 on the site. With the work necessary to sell the property, gas pipes, sewer lines moved or an easement given and the possible excavation of more dirt, he indicated he believes that adding these expenses will total more than $1 million. That would be in addition to asking a developer to indemnify the City against any problems with waste on the site in the future. He does not know the number which would be attached by developers. At this point, he feels the committee has food for thought and plans more discussion on whether or not to proceed with the tests in a week or two.

Mr. Gollinger reminded the committee that the outlay of money was not all in pursuit of a land sale, but part would have to be done in any case as part of another mandate. He feels the question is a) whether part of the cost of the project can be recovered, and b) is there an opportunity to take land not contributing to the operation of the City and develop some revenues so that the land can help the City.

Mr. Hagan feels it is a good idea to use the tests to develop a matrix of where the waste is located and how far it extends.

Mr. Potterfield noted the late hour and announced that the Committee will defer consideration of the suggestions made by the Building Department for changes to the Code to the next meeting. He expressed appreciation, however, for their time and effort in seeking solutions in the best interests of the City.

There was no further discussion from Council, and following a motion by Mr. Potterfield, seconded by Mr. Gollinger, and a unanimous affirmative vote, the meeting was adjourned at

7:57 p.m.

_______________________________ _______________________________

Earl W. Potterfield, Chairman Misao Kurokawa

Planning, Zoning and Economic Clerk of Council

Development Committee

Please note: This is a draft copy of the minutes of the Planning, Zoning and Economic Development Committee of November 8, 2004. These minutes may be revised or amended at the next Legislative Meeting.