MINUTES OF MEETING
PLANNING COMMISSION
MARCH 16, 2010
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Members Present: Gustafson, Gorski, Brown, Bishop, Harvey
Presence Noted: Andrew Bemer, Law Director
Kevin Beirne, Building Commissioner
Dr. Jim Schieda, At-Large Council Member
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Mr. Harvey called
to order the March 16, 2010 meeting of the Planning Commission at 7:00 P.M. in
Council Chambers of Rocky River City Hall.
Mr. Harvey asked if anyone has any corrections, additions, or deletions
to the February 16, 2010 meeting minutes.
Mr. Bishop made a motion to approve the minutes as presented. Mr. Gustafson seconded.
4 Ayes – 0 Nays – 1 Abstain (Gorski)
Approved
1. DAIRY QUEEN/ORANGE JULIUS – PUBLIC HEARING - Westwood Town Center – 21665 Center Ridge Rd. –Final Review – Drive-Thru. Mr. Kevin Morand, Architect, came forward to explain the project.
Mr. Morand began by presenting an aerial view of the vicinity, as requested. He explained that Dairy Queen/Orange Julius was here last month for preliminary review, at which time it was suggested that they change a couple of things. He said that the Planning Commission asked them to consider moving the approach to the drive-thru away from the entrance to the building. They rearranged the parking by putting a row of parking up against the building, then an aisle, and another row of parking. The shopping center owner has approved this change, which will result in cars stacking in an aisle away from the building. They have also added more landscaping around the front of the patio and added landscaping in the back of the building. The existing building does not have any landscaping. Mr. Harvey commended Mr. Morand for making the significant alterations for safety purposes.
Mr. Gustafson said that he still does not like the traffic flow. He compared it to McDonald’s, which is located next door, and said he likes it much more than this one. He said that traffic enters from Center Ridge and is either parking or getting in line at the drive-thru, whereas at McDonald’s, there is only one-way traffic that enters just to park. The traffic is slower there and he thinks there is much less risk that a pedestrian will be hurt. In addition, he said he likes the way McDonald’s separates the cars that are stacking in the drive-thru from the cars in the parking area, by using a landscaped island. He said that the Dairy Queen customers will be crossing in front of the cars in order to get to the entrance.
Mr. Morand said that there is a one-way driveway going north out to Center Ridge Rd. between the McDonald’s drive-thru and Dairy Queen parking. The property line for the shopping center is between the driveway and the Dairy Queen parking, so there are restrictions as to how much space they can take up with curbs and independent drive-thru lanes. As designed, the drive-thru is not in the main shopping center driveway and does not interfere with the shopping center driveway traffic. In addition, Mr. Morand said that Dairy Queen does not have the volume of traffic that McDonald’s has. The site plan has been reworked several times since the last meeting and they had a lot of input from the Landlord about how to set it up. The shopping center has to maintain a certain amount of overall parking spaces for some of their big box store leases and this plan helps the Landlord maintain their parking commitment for the whole shopping center.
Mr. Gustafson said that the biggest change that could help with the safety would be to make the aisle one-way traffic going the opposite direction, away from the drive-thru, so that traffic would not be flowing through there to get to the drive-thru. He suggested that they approach the stack from the outside so people would only be using the aisle for parking. Mr. Morand said that if they went with that plan, the only way to enter the drive-thru would be off of the shopping center driveway and cars would wind up stacking into the shopping center.
Mr. Harvey asked if the Design Board made any suggestions when they reviewed the plan. Building Commissioner Beirne said that the only thing they suggested was proper egress out of the ornamental fence around the patio. Mr. Bishop asked Building Commissioner Beirne if they can afford to give up any parking spaces. Mr. Beirne said that they cannot afford to give any spaces up. Mr. Harvey said he likes the way the building is visually consistent with the other buildings in the area and the police wrote a memo saying that they do not have any issues with it as far as safety. Mr. Harvey asked Mr. Gustafson if he wants to comment further on the traffic flow issue.
Mr. Gustafson said that he wants to hear if his suggestion will harm Dairy Queen’s business and whether the traffic flow into the store will be impaired if they made that change. He said it is definitely a safer option, but it is a different story if it will impede traffic flow and impair the business. Mr. Morand said he does not think it will impair the business, but the biggest concern is that when the drive-thru lane fills up, it would back into the shopping center traffic circulation, which is a bigger problem than the traffic going around Dairy Queen. Mr. Morand said that he does not have any evidence to prove it, but there are a number of Dairy Queens in northeast Ohio that have similar traffic arrangements and they seem to function well.
Ms. Brown asked if there is any kind of barrier that will keep traffic from entering from the southeast corner of the site to get into the stack. Mr. Morand said that the pavement will be striped to show it is not an entrance. Ms. Brown said she likes the landscaping plan, but if they can live without the 3 spaces abutting the outdoor eating area, she would like them to consider eliminating them. It is an awkward place to park and it is dangerous to back out of them. Mr. Morand said that Dairy Queen preferred to eliminate them but the shopping center owner insisted on keeping those spaces.
Mr. Harvey asked if there is anyone here tonight from the public who wishes to comment about the project. Mr. Harvey said it is not necessary to have a motion to open the public hearing because there is nobody in attendance tonight to comment on this item.
Mr. Harvey said that he feels Dairy Queen made some significant alterations to landscaping and traffic flow within the restrictions they have.
Mr. Harvey made a motion to approve the Final Review of Dairy Queen/Orange Julius, located at Westwood Town Center, 21665 Center Ridge Rd. Ms. Brown seconded.
4 Ayes – 0 Nays – 1 Abstain (Gustafson)
Approved
2. ERIE ISLAND CAFÉ – 19300 Detroit Rd. – PRELIMINARY REVIEW – Drive-thru. Mr. John Waddell, the Architect, came forward to present the project.
Mr. Waddell said that the project involves the former National City Bank space at Beachcliff Market Square that they are converting to a coffee shop. They also have locations at Kelly’s Island in downtown Cleveland. They would like to put in a drive-thru window for their morning rush of coffee patrons. The biggest hours of window use would be from approximately 6:30 a.m. until about 10:00 or 10:30 a.m. They will be serving coffee and light sandwiches and salads inside the restaurant, as well.
Mr. Harvey said he wonders if it will present a problem now that the Beachcliff area has gotten very popular and traffic has gotten heavy in the area. He said that there is a lot of pedestrian traffic there now. However, he said that people can go out that driveway now. He asked if they have done any traffic studies. Mr. Waddell said that they are opening the building up on the corner and adding windows on both sides of the building so that cars can see as they pull up toward the east. They are also adding a fence along there so that people will be protected when they are walking out.
Mr. Gustafson asked how The Pub feels about the drive-thru menu location being so close to their entrance. Mr. Waddell introduced Mr. Bill Brink, the Property Manager for Beachcliff Market Square and said he might be able to speak to that issue. Mr. Brink said that the traffic is often a topic of conversation, but he talked to Chief Wagner about accidents or problems there and he reported that there has never been one. That exit is being used now, although not as frequently as when National City was there, and the tall bushes have been removed. Mr. Brink said he spoke to the manager of The Pub and they don’t open until 3:00 p.m. and the majority of the coffee traffic will be from 6:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m. In addition, The Pub closes their entrance in that location during the winter months because of the draft from the weather.
Mr. Harvey asked if any of the neighbors have seen the plans yet or if they have heard any feedback from them. Mr. Waddell said he has not taken the plans around to show anyone, but some of the neighbors are excited about it. Mr. Brink added that all of the merchants are aware of it and the students at Aveda, along with Dawson and the owners of other businesses, have been looking for a place for a quick, healthy, light lunch. He said that the retractable doors on the patio will add a lot to the downtown area, which the whole city has been trying to revitalize with walking traffic and the new streetscape plan.
Ms. Brown said that she is having difficult getting a feel for the area because the tiny little location map is giving her almost no information. She would like to see it in a bigger scale to try to discern traffic flow and potential problems. She asked them to provide a vicinity map when they come back so that she can see the project in context with the larger picture. Mr. Waddell said he will bring a vicinity map for the final review.
Mr. Gustafson asked when they would like to open for business. Mr. Waddell said that the manager is pregnant and she wants to be open before she has her baby, so they would like to open this summer.
Mr. Bishop made a motion to grant preliminary approval for a drive-thru at Erie Island Café, 19300 Detroit Road in Beachcliff Market Square. Ms. Gorski seconded.
5 Ayes – 0 Nays
Preliminarily Approved
3. JOE’S DELI AND RESTAURANT – 19215 Hilliard Blvd. – PRELIMINARY RE-APPROVAL – New Restaurant Building. Mr. Tom Gable, Restaurant owner’s representative, came forward to present the project.
Mr. Harvey said that Joe’s is here for preliminary re-approval and this Board has a very good base of information about this project. because they have been here many times.
Mr. Gable said that in 2008 they had preliminary approval and then Board of Zoning Appeals granting of variances. They had Design and Construction Board of Review approval and then final Planning Commission approval in 2009. He said the charge from that point forward was for the owners to find suitable financing, which became a challenge for them in today’s environment. They now have 3 banks in serious discussions. He described the financing details and types of loans they are considering.
Mr. Gable said that absolutely nothing has changed and that all of the drawings before them are the same as they were last time. The dimensions, products, materials, elevations, and engineering are all identical to what they had approved. He said Joe’s stand by all of their commitments they made to the City, as well as the neighbor on the eastern border, with whom they will discuss fencing and landscaping options.
Mr. Harvey said that since everything is the same and they have already approved it, he would like to make a Motion.
Mr. Harvey made a motion to approve the preliminary re-approval of the Joe’s Deli and Restaurant new restaurant building located at 19215 Hilliard Blvd. since nothing has changed and they have already reviewed and approved all of the plans. Mr. Bishop seconded.
5 Ayes – 0 Nays
Preliminarily Re-Approved
A member of the audience asked the Planning Commission if the people in attendance are allowed to say anything on this matter because they received notices. Mr. Harvey said that this is a preliminary review and is not for public comment until the Final Review. Building Commissioner Beirne explained that notification of surrounding property owners is not required for preliminary review of a project. However, when Joe’s went through the entire approval process last time, the neighbors complained because there were no notices sent for the preliminary review. He said that notifying the neighbors for tonight’s meeting was a courtesy, but was not required. He explained that they will have an opportunity to speak at the Board of Zoning Appeals meeting for their variance requests and also at the Final Planning Commission review.
4. DR. NEAL MARKS – 2880 Plymouth Ave. – PRELIMINARY APPROVAL – New Office Building. Dr. Neal Marks, Business Owner, and Mr. Lee Bokart, Consultant, came forward to present the project.
Dr. Marks began by explaining that they would like to construct a 2200 sq. ft. ranch style building on the vacant parking lot that exists at this location that will house his podiatry practice. The property was recently rezoned to office. Mr. Harvey said that, as he recalls, there are neighbors just to the east of the proposed new building who have expressed some concern. He asked what has happened since the rezoning of the property up until now with regard to discussions with the neighbors. Mr. Bokart said that since the rezoning, they have made personal visits in order to show the neighbors what they are doing. He said they are aware that the height of the building will be restricted so that the neighbors to the east and north will not have to worry about a larger office building being built there. Since then, there has been no opposition by the neighbors. He said that the design and site plan are finished, and it is similar to what they will be doing at the Doctor’s South Euclid office. He said that they are working on the specific materials, such as the type and color of brick for the façade. He said the idea is that it will fit in with the area and look like a house.
Mr. Gustafson asked about landscaping plans. Mr. Bokart said that since the area is entirely asphalt, they determined that it is best to locate the building where they are proposing on the site in order to use all the existing asphalt. They are planning to install some type of landscaping at the front entrance of the property and low maintenance pots or planters around the building. Mr. Gustafson confirmed with Mr. Bokart that he will leave all of the hard surfaces, and the landscaping will consist of pots. Mr. Bokart said that he is correct and they will be putting something to the right and left of the entrance door. They are also trying to avoid having any handicap ramping. Mr. Gustafson said that when they were discussing the rezoning, a comment was made that it would be nice to see something at the end of Plymouth Ave. Because of where the building is placed, he would like to see some type of landscaping at the end of the road, rather than hard surface. He said that 2 pots may not really be enough.
Mr. Bokart said that they did not want to do anything with the existing surrounding landscaping, which includes tall trees and fencing. Mr. Bishop said that it seems as if they have a lot of parking and asked if he has a feel for how many spaces are adequate. He said that at the South Euclid office at any given time, there are 11 spaces that are full. Their objective is not to disrupt the amount of hard surface that exists on the site. The parking lot to the east would be the main parking area, and the rest would be used as overflow parking. Mr. Bishop said that he is worried they have too much parking. Mr. Bokart said that because the building sits in the middle of the property, the primary parking for patients would all be to the right, and then the doctors and staff would park to the left as you pull in. Mr. Bishop said that they have 13 spaces in the back, and 18 spaces in the front, plus handicap parking spaces. Dr. Marks said that he has 14 spaces at his east side office and they fill up many times during the day. He said it is the biggest flaw in that facility. With 2 doctors and a staff of 5, there would be about 7 cars. In addition, then they need at least 15 more spaces. He said there are deliveries, cleaning crew, etc. throughout the day, and he finds that the 14 spots on the east side are practically full all day. Mr. Bishop said that he would like to see them remove at least 2 spaces to the east in order to provide more green space.
Ms. Brown said she thinks that she would like to see some of the hard space turned into something permeable. She said that there is an opportunity to take a considerable amount of impervious pavement and all of the storm runoff, and do something different with it. Mr. Bokart said that they have felt that the surface was already pushed through 10 years ago as a good, functional parking space. Ms. Brown said that it is functioning because it was engineered to take all of the run-off. However, she is suggesting that they try to do something different in the area that connects the west side parking to the east side parking. Dr. Marks said that you can’t really do anything with the north and south areas because of the setback requirements. Ms. Brown said that she is saying that the north and south areas do not have to be paved. Dr. Marks said that there is 30’ on one side and 35’ on the other and if it is a snowy day, he wants to be able to have access from both sides of the building and he needs 2-lane access.
Mr. Bishop said he thinks that they need a landscape plan. Mr. Harvey agreed and asked the applicant if there will be a landscape plan. Dr. Marks said that their concern with the landscaping is to make sure the neighboring houses are buffered. He also does not want a lot of landscaping maintenance and he was not planning on putting a great deal of landscaping around the building because of the cost involved.
Mr. Harvey said that there was a lot of discussion about the project being right on top of the surrounding neighbors. He asked if they still have any concerns about the project. Dr. Marks said that they only know that neighbors have expressed concern about the lighting. He said that there will be simple lighting, with no spot lights. He said the signage is on the opposite side. Mr. Bokart said that the existing fencing and trees provides a natural barrier and the design of the building is like that of a ranch style house.
Mr. Harvey asked Building Commissioner Beirne if the storm drain is alright. Mr. Beirne said that there is a major trunk line that goes right through the property.
Mr. Harvey said that he understands that they want to keep it simple. However, he would like to see some type of permanent landscaping plan so he knows it is not just a stark ranch building. Mr. Bishop agreed and said that the site needs more green space. Mr. Beirne said that paving is not considered a buffer, but grass and shrubbery are. Ms. Brown said that there is enough space to allow Dr. Marks to re-think the plan and she would like to see a lot of the pavement become permeable surface. Dr. Marks said that he is concerned about snow plows and their access to be able to remove the snow.
Mr. Harvey made a motion to grant preliminary approval for the new office building at 2880 Plymouth Ave., for Dr. Neil Marks, subject to a final review which includes a landscape plan that this Planning Commission can understand. Ms. Brown seconded.
5 Ayes – 0 Nays
Approved
The meeting adjourned at 8:35 p.m.
Michael Harvey, Chairman William Bishop, Vice Chairman